第170期
【提问有奖】DeFi AMM始祖,能解决DEX诸多BUG吗?

嘉宾 Nate Hindman,Asaf Shachaf

关于自动化做市商(AMM):  在股市中,做市商(market maker) 负责撮合买家和卖家,以促成交易。这些人通过价差(spread) 来赚钱。而自动化做市商(Automated Market Maker, AMM) 在传统金融市场已经出现一段时间了。它们让金融人士能够建立一些必须遵循的价格关系。如果某一资产触及某个特定价格,一定数量的该资产就会…

已结束 参与人数:165

关于自动化做市商(AMM):  

在股市中,做市商(market maker) 负责撮合买家和卖家,以促成交易。这些人通过价差(spread) 来赚钱。而自动化做市商(Automated Market Maker, AMM) 在传统金融市场已经出现一段时间了。它们让金融人士能够建立一些必须遵循的价格关系。如果某一资产触及某个特定价格,一定数量的该资产就会被买进。
在传统金融领域,AMM由人力来操作。然而,在以太坊上,这种人力控制可以最小化。通过智能合约代码构成的机器人来完成自动化做市。
Bancor在2017年推出了首个主要智能合约AMM并率先试验了部分关键功能设计。2018年Unisawp凭借更加简便的操作以及更低廉的gas费用将AMM发扬光大,如今,随着DeFi的火爆,这种让任何人都能参与做市的AMM模式也在加密领域茁壮成长。不过很快,人们发现了被称为“无常损失”的BUG。简单来说,假设你为ETH-DAI代币池提供流动性,但如果ETH涨得很快,那么你为代币池提供流动性的获得费用收益,可能还不如直接持有ETH带来的收益。

Bancor V2:流动性放大机制

对于AMM模式的DEX来说,首要的是流动性,如何激励流动性提供商的愿意提供流动性是关键。 
Bancor V2通过使用Chainlink预言机价格来保持其储备的相对价值不变,从而创建具有固定流动性储备的AMM来解决“无常损失”。
此外,Bancor V2还将解决代币风险敞口的问题。一般的流动性提供商按照50%:50%价值比例来提供代币池的流动性。而在Bancor V2中,流动性提供者可以只提供100%的单个代币,这对于扩大流动性来说至关重要。同时,Bancor V2还将支持AMM集成借贷协议,这意味着流动性提供者除了可以获得交易费用的收益,还可以获得贷款利息的收益。
对于用户关心的DEX的滑点问题,Bancor V2会提供可定制的联合曲线来提高Bancor AMM的资本效率,它在给定的兑换价格范围内利用更多流动池的资本,由此来减少滑点。 
延伸阅读:

嘉宾介绍:

Nate Hindman: Bancor业务增长负责人。

Asaf Shachaf: Bancor 产品负责人。

AMA时间: 

7月20日,周一,下午4点

究竟是什么原因让DeFi在今年市值激增? 
DEX有哪些弊端,又将如何解决?
AMM在原有基础上将有哪些突破?这将会给DeFi的发展带来什么影响?

任何与DeFi、AMM有关的问题,欢迎来聊!

提问有奖: 

AMA结束后嘉宾将选取“最有价值提问奖”5名,每人给予10个BNT(110RMB等值)
此外,嘉宾还将随机抽取“幸运提问奖”10名,每人给予5个BNT(55RMB等值)

如何参与AMA? 

在本主题帖下直接回帖提问即可参与,嘉宾将在活动开始后上线回答, AMA增加了主持人:牛头大哥提问环节,欢迎大家围观讨论!

如何进群交流? 

微信扫下方二维码添加链节点小助手燃燃(微信号:ljdwudi5520),回复“AMA”,小助手直接邀请进群,快进群跟小伙伴们一起交流探讨吧! 

 
特别鸣谢: ChainNode首席合作媒体:火星财经、星球日报、链闻、陀螺财经和Bitwires对本期AMA的支持! 
  • 最新
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  • 一枚小汤圆a 管理员 发表于2020-07-22 18:34:19

    【获奖名单】AMM AMA
    ·恭喜
    Frank1003
    链节点忠实用户
    gentledog
    区块链雨日
    cncoin
    5名用户获得“最具价值”提问奖,奖励为10个BNT(110RMB等值)

    ·恭喜以下10名用户获得“幸运用户”奖,奖励为5个BNT(55RMB等值)
    1.may52001555;2.马哥ms;3.
    西北小灰狼;4.
    lS9m0nfP;5.
    BitMen;6.
    以太坊教父;7.
    rainRAID;8.天才炒币儿童
    ;9.
    明月青;10.PHOENIX999

    注:1.请以上15位获奖用户于2020年7月24日下午3点前添加链节点小助手VX:ljdwudi5520) ,添加时请备注获奖用户名+AMM AMA领奖,以便工作人员核查;核查确认后留下钱包地址。过期未添加链节点小助手视为放弃奖励,谢谢配合!
    链节点小助手二维码(下方)

  • 一枚小汤圆a 管理员 发表于2020-07-23 10:28:25
    【课代表】本期AMA内容整理:https://www.8btc.com/article/625396
  • 牛头大哥 管理员 发表于2020-07-16 11:38:16
    欢迎Bancor团队作客ChainNode AMA! 下面的一些问题希望两位嘉宾可以解答:

    1. 作为最早开推出AMM模式的项目方,两位能否向大家介绍一下,AMM对传统的加密货币交易做出了哪些改变?对于DeFi有什么深远意义?

    2. 目前已知的AMM种类包括恒定总和做市商(CSMM)、恒定平均值做市商(CMMM)和混合常数函数做市商(CFMM), 它们的现状如何?分别有哪些优势和劣势?第二代AMM将作出哪些优化?


    3. 传统的AMM通常要求流动性提供者存入2种不同的代币,以便为交易双方提供同等的流动性。Bancor V2是如何消除这种双面流动性存款要求,使流动性提供者保持对单一代币的风险敞口?


    4. Bancor V2与竞争对手家的Uniswap V2相比,对于机构投资者和散户而言分别有哪些优势?


    5. 传统金融中的AMM是和高频交易联系在一起的,金融市场的复杂性使得AMM的函数模型足够复杂,以及准确高效。而在DeFi AMM中,往往采用的都是比较简单的线性函数模型,对此两位怎么看?有没有想过通过建立更复杂的模型并且通过Layer 2撮合交易?


    欢迎大家继续提问!


    AMA官方翻译小助手 船员 回复Nate Hindman 发表于2020-07-20 16:26:56

    5. 就线性函数而言,传统AMM模型的简单性牺牲了灵活性。Bancor V1变量固定权重是第一个引入更多的灵活性的AMM模型——https://blog.bancor.network/bancor-liquidity-pools-101-reserve-weights-e0268548ad1c——现在我们通过动态权重将这一概念再推进一步——https://docs.bancor.network/v2-liquidity-pools/balancing-mechanics,灵活性越强,普适性就越好。

    我们目前正在研究和发展我们的Layer2战略,一旦有任何进展,我们会向社区公布动态。


    AMA官方翻译小助手 船员 回复Asaf Shachaf 发表于2020-07-20 16:26:28

    4. Uniswap V2有三个重要问题:

    • 非自愿代币敞口

    • 滑点

    • 无常损失

    Bancor V2则能实现:

    • 单一代币敞口(在AMM中赋予单个代币100%敞口)

    • 低滑点(通过优化后的连接曲线实现)

    • 降低无常损失(通过动态权重以及内部和外部喂价实现)

    更多信息可参见:https://docs.bancor.network/getting-started/the-v2-difference

    如何在Bancor池质押:https://blog.bancor.network/guide-how-to-stake-liquidity-in-bancor-pools-758df075e7e6

    AMA官方翻译小助手 船员 回复Nate Hindman 发表于2020-07-20 16:25:50

    3. Bancor就单代币敞口提出了解决方案,关键部分如下:

    • 单一储备池代币:每个V2池都与两个代币池锚定(每个储备池1个)

    • 已质押余额和当前余额:对于每个储备,已质押余额表示流动性提供者所押代币的总数,当前余额表示储备中持有代币的数量。

    • 动态权重:储备池更新储备权重,以激励市场参与者将当前余额与已质押的余额实现平衡。

    • 喂价:喂价用于计算权重,使套利结束后,储备池等于市场价格。

    你可以看看有关这类机制的文章https://blog.bancor.network/breaking-down-bancor-v2-dynamic-automated-market-makers-4e90c0f9a04或者查看Bancor V2文档docs.bancor.network的余额机制部分https://docs.bancor.network/v2-liquidity-pools/balancing-mechanics


    AMA官方翻译小助手 船员 回复Nate Hindman 发表于2020-07-20 16:25:14

    2. The Chainlink team published a good article on the different types of AMMs which you may want to read: https://matataki.io/p/4579

    CSMM和CMMM是第一代AMM,但他们缺乏灵活性。而混合CFMM代表了第二代AMM,它们结合了多种功能和参数来实现动态行为,比如为LP(流动性提供者)调整风险敞口,为交易者降低价格滑点。反过来,交易量将自然地流向混合CFMMs,这个过程已经开始。

    Chainlink团队有篇介绍不同类型AMM的文章不错,你可以看看:https://matataki.io/p/4579
    AMA官方翻译小助手 船员 回复Nate Hindman 发表于2020-07-20 16:24:28
    我们已经看到,以AMM为基础的DEX与中心化交易所争夺交易量。原因在于流动性——质押在AMM上的资金越多,它能提供的价格就越低。代币持有者意识到,他们可以通过质押代币获得有吸引力的回报,而不仅仅是把代币放在钱包里。他们还希望帮助增加代币的风险敞口和流动性。但直到现在,持有者面临一些严重的障碍,这在BancorV2公告中有提及https://blog.bancor.network/announcing-bancor-v2-2f56b515e9d8——无常的损失,多代币敞口和资本效率低。
    Bancor V2解决了这些问题,我们相信越来越多的持有者将会意识到AMM staking的力量,我们将会看到像Bancor这样基于AMM的DEX在密码交易中占有更大的份额。来自社区的流动性是非常强大的,特别是当你为代币社区减少了摩擦和风险时。
    Nate Hindman 水手 回复牛头大哥 发表于2020-07-20 16:12:25 嘉宾
    5. The simplicity of legacy AMM models in terms of their linear function has sacrificed flexibility. BancorV1 variable fixed weights was the first to introduce more flexibility to the AMM model - https://blog.bancor.network/bancor-liquidity-pools-101-reserve-weights-e0268548ad1c(中文翻译,https://www.jinse.com/blockchain/632622.html - now we are taking it a step further with dynamic weights - https://docs.bancor.network/v2-liquidity-pools/balancing-mechanics
    The more flexibility and generalization the better.
    We are currently investigating and developing our Layer 2 strategy and will update the community once these efforts are further along.
    Asaf Shachaf 水手 回复牛头大哥 发表于2020-07-20 16:11:05 嘉宾
    4.Uniswap V2 suffers from 3 key issues:
    Involuntary Token Exposure
    Slippage
    Impermanent Loss
    Bancor V2 allows:
    - single-token exposure (100% exposure to a single token in the AMM)?
    - low slippage (via optimized bonding curve)?
    - impermanent loss mitigation (via dynamic weights and internal / external price feeds)

    More info here: https://docs.bancor.network/getting-started/the-v2-difference
    How to stake in Bancor pools: https://blog.bancor.network/guide-how-to-stake-liquidity-in-bancor-pools-758df075e7e6
    Nate Hindman 水手 回复牛头大哥 发表于2020-07-20 16:04:13 嘉宾
    3. The key parts of Bancor’s solution for single-token exposure are as follows:

    Single-Reserve Pool Tokens: Each v2 pool is anchored to two pool tokens (one per reserve).
    Staked Balance and Current Balance: For each reserve, staked balance indicates the total amount of tokens staked by liquidity providers, and current balance indicates the amount of tokens held in the reserve.
    Dynamic Weights: The pool updates reserve weights to incentivize market participants to equalize the current balance with the staked balance.
    Price Feeds: Price feeds are used for calculating the weights such that after arbitrage closure, the pool price becomes equal to the market price.

    You can read the blog post on these mechanics (https://blog.bancor.network/breaking-down-bancor-v2-dynamic-automated-market-makers-4e90c0f9a04) or check the Balancing Mechanics section (https://docs.bancor.network/v2-liquidity-pools/balancing-mechanics) of the in-progress Bancor V2 docs (docs.bancor.network).
    Nate Hindman 水手 回复牛头大哥 发表于2020-07-20 16:02:48 嘉宾
    CSMM and CMMM were the first generation of AMMs, however they lack flexibility. Whereas Hybrid CFMMs represent the second generation - they combine multiple functions and parameters to achieve dynamic behaviors such as adjusted risk exposure for LPs and reduced price slippage for traders. In turn, trade volume will naturally flow to Hybrid CFMMs and this process is already underway.

    The Chainlink team published a good article on the different types of AMMs which you may want to read: https://matataki.io/p/4579
    Nate Hindman 水手 回复牛头大哥 发表于2020-07-20 16:02:00 嘉宾
    1. We are already seeing AMM-based DEXs competing for volume with centralized exchanges. The reason is liquidity - the more funds staked to an AMM, the lower the prices it can offer. Token holders are realizing that they can generate attractive returns (APY) off AMM staking, instead of just holding the token in their wallet. They also want to help increase the token’s exposure and liquidity. But until they now, holders have faced some serious obstacles, as outlined in the BancorV2 announcement post - https://blog.bancor.network/announcing-bancor-v2-2f56b515e9d8(中文翻译,https://www.jinse.com/blockchain/649281.html) - impermanent loss, multi-token exposure and low capital efficiency.

    With Bancor V2 solving these issues, we believe more and more holders will awaken to the power of AMM staking, and we will see AMM-based DEXs like Bancor generate a much larger share of total crypto trading volume. Community-sourced liquidity is extremely powerful, especially when you reduce friction and risk for the token communities.
  • PHOENIX999 副船长 发表于2020-07-16 13:08:09
    DEFI在今年成为了最热的项目,现在凡是个项目不跟DEFI扯上关系感觉就是差项目似的,那么在众多繁杂的项目中,我们如何去伪存真,找出真正的好DEFI项目呢?DEFI的发展会给传统金融行业带来什么影响和变化?
    AMA官方翻译小助手 船员 回复Nate Hindman 发表于2020-07-20 16:27:55

    DeFi将基于密码的网络重新聚焦于链上金融应用。作为一个行业,在我们开始建立密码版的Airbnb或Uber之前,我们首先需要搞定金融用例,这就是DeFi。

    有了DeFi,我们实质上是在推出一种新的方式来通过去信任化的方式汇集社区资金,并利用这些资金来提供金融服务。正如众筹被证明取代了许多风险投资一样,传统金融将很快发现,社区资助的金融服务比那些纯粹由大型可信机构资助的金融服务更强大。DeFi将对贷款、衍生品、资产交换等领域产生影响。

    与此同时,许多参与这一活动的流动性提供者是加密基金、风投和家族理财室,它们看到了这种新型金融服务的前景。


    Nate Hindman 水手 回复PHOENIX999 发表于2020-07-20 16:16:16 嘉宾
    DeFi is a refocusing of crypto-based networks towards on-chain financial applications. As an industry, before we can move onto building the Airbnb or Uber of crypto, we first need to nail the financial use-case and that is what DeFi is.
    With DeFi, we are essentially launching new ways to trustlessly pool community capital and utilize this pooled capital to offer financial services. Just as crowdfunding proved to displace a lot of venture capital, traditional finance will soon find that community-funded financial services are more powerful than those funded purely by large trusted institutions. This will have an impact across lending, derivatives, asset exchange and beyond.
    At the same time, many of the liquidity providers that are bootstrapping this activity are crypto funds, VCs and family offices that see promise in this new form of financial services.
  • 随着去中心化的金融应用(DeFi)的逐渐火热,一种新的加密原生发行方式开始盛行——初始DeFi发行(简称IDO),但是各种DeFi项目参差不齐,你是怎么看待这种现象的?IDO最后会不会像ICO、IEO一样留下一地鸡毛,并对DeFi市场产生影响?
    AMA官方翻译小助手 船员 回复Nate Hindman 发表于2020-07-20 16:34:52

    IDOs确实很有趣,但高频交易员和机器人——而不是项目或持有者——成为真正的赢家肯定有很多缺陷和事故。Bancor已经在这一领域进行了多年的实验,包括在中国出现的“IBOs”(Initial Bancor Offerings)——初始Bancor发行:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NZugRGcirE

    因此,总的来说,我认为通过基于AMM的DEX进行初始发行是积极的行业试验。然而,我会鼓励项目方不要一股脑冲进来,要确保他们经过了深思熟虑,确保他们设计的机制允许最多参与者参与,而不是让这些产品成为另一种形式的风投或者让有经验的交易员赚散户的钱。


    Nate Hindman 水手 回复链节点忠实用户 发表于2020-07-20 16:23:51 嘉宾
    IDOs are indeed interesting, but there are certainly many flaws and incidents of high-frequency traders and bots being the real winners - not the projects or the holders. Bancor has seen experimentation in this area for years, including the emergence of “IBOs” - Initial Bancor Offerings - in China: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NZugRGcirE

    So in general, I think it is positive for the industry to see experimentation with initial offerings occurring via AMM-based DEXs. However, I would just encourage projects to not rush into such offerings, and ensure they are well thought-out and designed in a way that allows the largest set of participants to be involved, rather than these offerings becoming just another way for VCs and advanced traders to make a quick buck off of retail users.
  • gentledog 版主 发表于2020-07-16 14:45:23
    1、从介绍来看,Bancor V2严重依赖预言机。这是不是太中心化了?有没有预言机失灵或者作恶的可能?
    2、Bancor V2依赖外部的资产价格,这就意味着Bancor V2相对于外部市场只能是一个小众市场,它的流动性无法超过外部市场的流动性。这是否会影响Bancor V2的市场前景?
    3、文章中提到,AMM被批评需要大量的流动资金才能达到与基于订单簿的交易所相同的滑点水平。那么能不能将AMM和基于订单簿的交易所结合起来?
    AMA官方翻译小助手 船员 回复Nate Hindman 发表于2020-07-20 16:44:54

    3. 这是一种批评,但肯定是Bancor V2用“放大系数”解决的问题。我们使用放大系数来优化定价曲线,以显著降低滑点——放大准备金流动性的20倍系数,因此,一个准备金为20万美元的池子可以提供与1000万美元池子一样的价格。点击这里了解更多:https://blog.bancor.network/amplified-liquid-designing-capitalefficiency - automated-marketmaker -in- banc-v2 -3cec8891c3a1

    在整个行业中,我们已经看到,利用流动性放大使AMM能够与基于订单的交易所竞争。如果在接下来的几年里,大部分的密码交易都是通过基于AMM的DEX进行的,我不会感到惊讶。

    当然,这两个基础事物(AMM和订单簿)可以组合在一起。Jarvis.exchange正在这个领域进行一些有趣的实验:https://jarvis.market/


    AMA官方翻译小助手 船员 回复Nate Hindman 发表于2020-07-20 16:40:10

    2. 如果Bancor是特定资产的最大市场,预言机将把Bancor价格作为“外部”市场价格。我们已经在用一个内部预言机系统,在外部预言机更新期间以这种方式运行。所以我们不认为这是一个约束或影响Bancor V2的潜在因素。

    AMA官方翻译小助手 船员 回复Asaf Shachaf 发表于2020-07-20 16:37:46

    1. Bancor团队开发了一个稳健的基础设施,可以集成任何外部预言机解决方案。因此任何中心故障点都可以消除。尽管预言机有时会出现故障,但在这些罕见的情况下,v2池有一个故障安全机制,可以将它们恢复为v1池并像以前一样操作。一旦预言机纠正了错误,这个池将更新权重以使储备恢复到正确的状态。

    Nate Hindman 水手 回复gentledog 发表于2020-07-20 16:30:39 嘉宾
    3. It is a criticism but definitely something Bancor V2 addresses with an “amplification coefficient”. We optimize the pricing curve using amplification to dramatically reduce slippage - 20X amplification on liquidity in the reserves, so a pool with $200,000 in reserves can offer prices that are like a $10M pool in terms of slippage. You can learn more here: https://blog.bancor.network/amplified-liquidity-designing-capital-efficient-automated-market-makers-in-bancor-v2-3cec8891c3a1
    Across the industry we have already seen that using liquidity amplification allows AMM to compete with order-book based exchanges. I wouldn’t be surprised if the majority of crypto trading volume occurs via AMM-based DEXs in the next couple years.

    Of course, the two primitives (AMMs and order books) can be combined. Jarvis.exchange is running some interesting experiments in this field: https://jarvis.market/
    Nate Hindman 水手 回复gentledog 发表于2020-07-20 16:25:16 嘉宾
    2. In the case that Bancor is the largest market for a given asset, the oracle will use the Bancor price as the “external” market price. We are already utilizing an internal oracle system that operates in this way in between external oracle updates. So we don’t see this as a constraint or affecting the potential of Bancor V2.
    Asaf Shachaf 水手 回复gentledog 发表于2020-07-20 16:18:48 嘉宾
    1.The team has developed a robust infrastructure to integrate with any external oracle solution. So that any central point of failures can be eliminated. Though there is some risk that the oracle will fail from time to time, in these rare cases, v2 pools have a failsafe where they revert to v1 pools and operate as before. Once the oracle corrects, the pool will update the weights to return the reserves to their proper state.
  • may52001555 队长 发表于2020-07-16 16:13:12
    Dex如何抢到更多的交易者
    AMA官方翻译小助手 船员 回复Nate Hindman 发表于2020-07-20 16:47:39

    一个词:流动性。如今DEX聚合的方式是,交易量自然地流向提供最佳价格的流动性来源。由1inch.exchange和Paraswap等项目开创的所谓“智能订单路由”允许这种情况实时发生。在特定的DEX协议中,随着流动性的增加,它会提供更好的价格,从而吸收更多的交易量。

    有人称之为“流动性黑洞”,一旦Bancor V2池上线,我们将看到这一现象的全面影响。


    Nate Hindman 水手 回复may52001555 发表于2020-07-20 16:31:40 嘉宾
    One word: liquidity. The way DEX aggregation works these days is trading volume naturally flows to the liquidity sources offering the best prices. So-called “smart-order routing” pioneered by projects like 1inch.exchange and Paraswap allow for this to occur in real time. As liquidity increases in a specific DEX protocol, it offers better prices and in turn sucks up more trade volume.

    Some have called this “the liquidity blackhole” and we will see this phenomenon go into full effect once Bancor V2 pools come online.
  • 马哥ms 船员 发表于2020-07-16 16:24:27
    Defi概念已经火了整整一年,但事实是去中心化金融的理念虽然创新大胆,却不够吸引人,来币圈做投资的除了真正数字货币信仰者,大多数是渴望一夜暴富的人群,而defi的模式既然是抵押借贷,就涉及到利息与风险的平衡,虽然通过智能合约加新的算法规避了部分风险,但无法解决的是受众问题,因为比起中心化交易所的山寨币与合约赌博,操作便捷性和参与性目前来看还是低很多,那么Defi究竟如何破局,提高可操作性变得更容易理解来获得更多的参与者呢?毕竟一个更大的盘子带来的考验对于金融系统的升级非常重要。
    AMA官方翻译小助手 船员 回复Nate Hindman 发表于2020-07-20 16:53:44

    DeFi已接近指数级增长。其花了一段时间才让锁定的总价值达到10亿美元,但达到20亿美元则花了更短的时间,现在锁定的总价值即将达到30亿美元。与此同时,我们看到用户体验得到了极大的改善,DeFi服务常常能提供比中心化服务更好的用户体验。

    这是因为有大量的人才涌入DeFi领域。加密行业中最有才华的开发人员和产品设计师正在推出DeFi产品。

    我们也看到了一个全新类型的DeFi用户出现在当前的“DeFi牛市”。突然,一直把所有时间都花在币安和Coinbase上的用户开始摆弄DeFi产品,交易DeFi代币。因此,我们看到大量资金流入DeFi协议。

    我很高兴那些高喊竞争币土大木的人成为DeFi的“超级用户”——把他们持有的代币用在新的和令人兴奋的方式上。这种资本注入将为DeFi领域带来更多的人才。


    Nate Hindman 水手 回复马哥ms 发表于2020-07-20 16:34:15 嘉宾
    DeFi has hit near exponential growth. It took a while to get to $1 billion in total value locked, an even shorter time to hit $2 billion, and now $3 billion in total value locked is right around the corner. At the same time, we’re seeing user experiences improve dramatically, to the point where DeFi services often offer a superior user experience to their centralized counterparts.
    This is because talent is pouring into the DeFi space. The most talented developers and product designers in the crypto industry are launching DeFi products.
    Also we are seeing a whole new type of DeFi user emerge in the current DeFi bull-run. All of a sudden, users who traditionally spent all their time on Binance and Coinbase are playing around with DeFi products and trading DeFi tokens. So we are seeing a lot of this capital flow into DeFi protocols.
    I am excited for altcoin “moon boys” to become DeFi “power users” - putting their token holdings to work in new and exciting ways. This capital infusion will bring even more talent into the DeFi space.
  • 西北小灰狼 船员 发表于2020-07-16 16:51:18
    在数字货币交易过程中,很早就留意到某些非头部交易所存在机器人刷单现象,尤其是相对冷门的交易对,买卖价格相邻的挂单一直不能成交,而成交记录却持续存在,这就是自动化做市商AMM吗?AMM的引用除了给冷门交易对带来活跃的假象,还有哪些好处?
    AMA官方翻译小助手 船员 回复Nate Hindman 发表于2020-07-20 16:57:35

    你的困惑可能来自于这样一个事实,即套利机器人在平衡AMM的价格中扮演着至关重要的角色。如果没有与协议本身无关的第三方套利机器人,AMM将无法正常运行。

    例如,当一个“普通”交易员对AMM进行交易时,它为套利打开了一个获利的机会,从而“重新平衡”AMM储备,并将AMM价格重新与外部市场价格挂钩,以确保AMM始终提供一个“好”的价格。

    同样,如果代币价格在外部市场上发生变化,AMM也不会自动调整其价格。它需要一个套利者来购买价格过低的资产或出售价格过高的资产,直到AMM提供的价格与外部市场匹配。

    我建议你看看Bancor文档中的余额机制部分以获得更多信息:https://docs.bancor.network/v2-liquid-pools/balancing-mechanics


    Nate Hindman 水手 回复西北小灰狼 发表于2020-07-20 16:38:00 嘉宾
    Your confusion may arise from the fact that arbitrage bots play a crucial role in balancing prices in AMMs. Without third-party arbitrage bots - which are unaffiliated with the protocol itself - AMMs would not function correctly.

    For instance, when a “regular” trader performs a trade against an AMM, it opens a profit opportunity for an arbitrage to “re-balance” the AMM reserves, and reconnect the AMM price to the external market prices, to ensure that the AMM is always offering a “good” price.

    Similarly if a token price changes on external markets, an AMM doesn’t automatically adjust its prices. It requires an arbitrageur to come along and buy the underpriced asset or sell the overpriced asset until prices offered by the AMM match external markets.

    I suggest reading the balancing mechanics section of the Bancor docs for more information: https://docs.bancor.network/v2-liquidity-pools/balancing-mechanics
  • Ashsv 船员 发表于2020-07-16 19:29:11
    日常接触比较多的去中心化交易所就是鲸交所和扭蛋了,1、怎么识别一个DEX采用了AMM模式呢,有什么特征?2、AMM模式的采用的根本原因是交易所人气不够吗?3、中心化交易所,尤其是二三线开外的交易所是不是也普遍存在采用AMM模式呢?4、AMM模式的采用,会给交易对成交量注入一定水份,这算交易刷量?5、AMM模式除了解决流动性和划点的问题,还有哪些好处?
    Asaf Shachaf 水手 回复Ashsv 发表于2020-07-20 16:32:49 嘉宾
    1.See answers above.
  • 梦表哥 船员 发表于2020-07-16 22:09:42
    DeFi目前面临的最大问题之一是在像类312黑天鹅事件发生的时候非常脆弱。很大一部分是由于预言机的问题。在预言机和治理机制上,您认为应该做什么样的创新?
    AMA官方翻译小助手 船员 回复Nate Hindman 发表于2020-07-20 17:03:44

    Bancor团队开发了一个稳健的基础设施,可以集成任何外部预言机解决方案。因此任何中心故障点都可以消除。尽管预言机有时会出现故障,但在这些罕见的情况下,v2池有一个故障安全机制,可以将它们恢复为v1池并像以前一样操作。一旦预言机纠正了错误,这个池将更新权重以使储备恢复到正确的状态。

    我们正在密切关注预言机领域的创新,Bancor V2已经足够普适化,它可以插入任何预言机系统,也可以使用内部预言机(它自己的池)。所以我们将适应任何提供最佳预言机解决方案的预言机系统。

    随着BancorDAO的出现,BNT的持有者将能够投票决定协议中内置的预言机解决方案,我们相信这种级别的管理对于提供最好的解决方案是至关重要的。


    Nate Hindman 水手 回复梦表哥 发表于2020-07-20 16:45:07 嘉宾
    The team has developed a robust infrastructure to integrate with any external price feed. There is of course risk that the oracle may fail from time to time. In this rare case, v2 pools have a failsafe where they regress to v1 pools and operate as before. Once the oracle corrects, the pool will update the weights to return the reserves to their proper state.

    We are closely following the innovation happening in the oracle space and Bancor V2 is generalized enough that it can plug into any oracle system and also use internal oracles (its own pools). So we will adapt to whichever oracle system is offering the best oracle solution.

    Also with the emergence of the BancorDAO, BNT holders will be able to vote on oracle solutions built into the protocol and we believe this level of governance will be crucial in offering the best solution.
  • 天才炒币儿童 副船长 发表于2020-07-16 22:42:02
    怎么用通俗易懂的方式来理解自动化做市商AMM?我们用到的区块链钱包链上撮合兑换功能,是利用AMM完成的吗?有的DEX交易所支持散户把币投入到底池里,享受手续费分红,这种去中心化的做市商模式就是AMM吗?如果管理DEX底池资金智能合约受到黑客攻击,做市的资金有损失的风险吗?
    AMA官方翻译小助手 船员 回复Nate Hindman 发表于2020-07-20 17:09:16

    是的,听起来大致准确。Bancor网络上的每个AMM池为网络上的一组离散代币聚合流动性。任何人都可以向资金池提供流动性,并从通过资金池的交易中收取兑换费。流动性提供者收到的流动池代币与他们在池子中的资产份额成比例。

    在AMM的智能合约中质押代币存在智能合约风险。然而,当你进行质押时,你会收到一个可转让的ERC20代币,它直接存储在你的钱包里,可以兑换AMM的基础储备。池代币也可转让给其他交易者,并可在借贷协议中用作抵押品。

    自2017年以来,Bancor AMMs已经处理了数十亿美元的兑换量,流动性提供商产生了数百万美元的费用,因此它们肯定经受了考验。我们还有许多第三方公司对V2合同进行安全审计,以及一个公开的漏洞奖励机制https://blog.bancor.network/banc-v2-bug-bount-5bbb970d0097

    也就是说,在Bancor V2的早期阶段,我们建议流动性提供者只从小额资金开始。


    Nate Hindman 水手 回复天才炒币儿童 发表于2020-07-20 16:49:04 嘉宾
    Yes, this sounds roughly accurate. Every AMM pool on Bancor Network aggregates liquidity for a discrete set of tokens on the network. Anyone can provide liquidity to a pool and, in return, receive conversion fees from trades that pass through the pool. Liquidity providers receive pool tokens proportional to their share of assets in the pool.
    There is a smart contract risk of staking your tokens in the AMM’s smart contract. However, when you do stake you are receiving a transferable ERC20 token that is stored directly in your wallet and redeemable for the AMM’s underlying reserve. Pool tokens are also transferable to other traders and can be used as collateral in lending protocols.
    Since 2017, Bancor AMMs have processed billions in conversion volume, with liquidity providers generating millions in fees, so they are definitely battle-tested. We also have numerous third-party firms running security audits on the V2 contracts, as well as an open public bounty https://blog.bancor.network/bancor-v2-bug-bounty-5bbb970d0097
    That said, in the early phases of Bancor V2, we suggest that liquidity providers only start with small sums.
  • BitMen 船员 发表于2020-07-16 23:21:24
    defi现在的热度是否可持续,存在哪些挑战?
    AMA官方翻译小助手 船员 回复Nate Hindman 发表于2020-07-20 17:21:38

    鉴于大量机构流动性流入DeFi,我认为DeFi热度可以持续。这也带来了更多的散户。似乎在某个时刻会出现崩盘。crypto分析师Andrew Kang最近在https://twitter.com/Rewkang/status/1278434524934930435上分享了一个很棒的帖子。

    尤其是这张图:

    我还重新回顾了Carlota Perez对技术革命的研究https://www.amazon.com/Technological-Revolutions-Financial-Capital-Dynamics/dp/1843763311

    我认为DeFi处于狂热阶段。但简而言之,长期来看,DeFi将一直存在。


    Nate Hindman 水手 回复BitMen 发表于2020-07-20 16:54:22 嘉宾

    I think so given the large amount of institutional liquidity flowing into DeFi. This is creating even more retail users as well. It seems likely there will be a crash at some point. The crypto analyst Andrew Kang recently shared a great thread on this: https://twitter.com/Rewkang/status/1278434524934930435

    Particularly this image stuck out:

    I have also been revisiting Carlota Perez’s work on technological revolutions:

    https://www.amazon.com/Technological-Revolutions-Financial-Capital-Dynamics/dp/1843763311


    And I would say DeFi is very much in the frenzy stage.

    But in short, over the long term, I believe it is here to stay.


  • 区块链雨日 海盗王 发表于2020-07-17 03:50:43
    币圈一直游离于监管和合规的边缘,defi有可能会合规吗?怎么做才会被主流投资机构接纳?
    AMA官方翻译小助手 船员 回复Nate Hindman 发表于2020-07-20 17:23:06

    我们已经在AMM领域中看到了合规的迹象。例如,一些证券代币推出了Bancor AMM池来存放代币,并启用了白名单,只允许合格投资者提供流动性和产生费用。

    如果有机构的需求,开发人员将找到一种方法,在DeFi技术之上构建一个兼容的层,使它们对这部分用户可用。

    Nate Hindman 水手 回复区块链雨日 发表于2020-07-20 16:56:23 嘉宾
    Well we’re already seeing this occur in the AMM space. For instance, some security tokens are launching Bancor AMM pools for their tokens and enabling a whitelist that allows only accredited investors to provide liquidity and generate fees.

    If the institutional demand is there, developers will figure out a way to build a compliant layer atop DeFi technologies to make them usable for this subset of users.
  • 以太坊教父 副船长 发表于2020-07-17 06:47:31
    关于什么是无常损失,举了个以太坊的例子,说的很通俗明白,但是后面说Bancor V2通过使用Chainlink预言机价格来保持其储备的相对价值不变,来解决无常损失的问题。Chainlink预言机是一个什么东西?我并不太了解它,为什么使用它,就能使储备的相对价格不变?进而解决无常损失的问题?这是怎样一种原理?
    AMA官方翻译小助手 船员 回复Asaf Shachaf 发表于2020-07-20 17:26:02

    简而言之,Bancor减少了套利者重新平衡储备和从池中提取价值的机会,同时允许“健康”套利发生,不会从池中移除任何价值。对于每个储备,已质押余额代表流动性提供者所押代币的总数,当前余额表示储备中持有代币的数量。储备池更新储备权重,以激励市场参与者将当前的储备与已押的储备平衡起来。喂价用于计算权重,这样在套利结束后,池价就等于市场价格。

    关于如何降低无常损失的最好说明在这里:https://docs.bancor.network/v2-liquidity-pools/balancing-mechanics

    还有这里:

    https://blog.bancor.network/breaking-down-bancor-v2-dynamic-automated-market-makers-4e90c0f9a04

    https://blog.bancor.network/beginners-guide-to-getting-rekt-by-impermanent-loss-7c9510cb2f22

    Asaf Shachaf 水手 回复以太坊教父 发表于2020-07-20 16:52:15 嘉宾
    In short, Bancor reduces the opportunity for arbitrageurs to rebalance reserves and extract value from the pool, while allowing for “healthy” arbitrage to occur which does not remove any value from the pool. For each reserve, staked balance indicates the total amount of tokens staked by liquidity providers, and current balance indicates the amount of tokens held in the reserve. The pool updates reserve weights to incentivize market participants to equalize the current balance with the staked balance. Price feeds are used for calculating the weights such that after arbitrage closure, the pool price becomes equal to the market price.

    The best explanations as to how impermanent loss mitigation works can be found here:
    https://docs.bancor.network/v2-liquidity-pools/balancing-mechanics

    And here: https://blog.bancor.network/breaking-down-bancor-v2-dynamic-automated-market-makers-4e90c0f9a04
  • rainRAID 海盗王 发表于2020-07-17 12:21:05
    怎么解决在Bancor上交易gas费用较高的问题
    AMA官方翻译小助手 船员 回复Nate Hindman 发表于2020-07-20 17:28:17

    这在很大程度上是由于以太坊网络的拥挤造成的。这是一个全行业的问题。我们正在不断优化我们的合约,使其尽可能地节约gas,比如最近的v0.6版本,它将平均gas成本降低了30-40%: https://blog.bancor.network/banc-contracts-v0 -6-dd3bc0dc95f6

    与其他DEX相比,Bancor合约是最高效的gas合约之一,我们将继续对其进行优化,并探索layer2解决方案,以降低交易员和流动性提供商的成本。


    Nate Hindman 水手 回复rainRAID 发表于2020-07-20 17:00:24 嘉宾
    This is largely a result of congestion on the Ethereum network. It is an industry wide issue. We are constantly optimizing our contracts to make them as gas efficient as possible, such as the recent v0.6 release which brought down average gas costs by 30-40%: https://blog.bancor.network/bancor-contracts-v0-6-dd3bc0dc95f6(中文翻译,https://www.jinse.com/blockchain/696063.html)

    As they stand, Bancor contracts are among the most gas efficient compared to other DEXs and we will continue to optimize them and explore Layer 2 solutions that reduce costs for traders and liquidity providers.
  • 洒脱喜 副船长 发表于2020-07-17 13:48:53
    1、能否用简单的方式解释下,Bancor V2 是如何使用Chainlink预言机来解决“无常损失”的吗,未来是否会接入其他去中心化的预言机,而不是仅仅依靠Chainlink这种相对中心化的方式?

    2、Bancor V2上线之后,会有流动性激励计划吗?

    3、Bancor是否有迁移到layer 2的计划,如果没有的话,是因为担心可组合性的丢失问题吗?
    AMA官方翻译小助手 船员 回复Nate Hindman 发表于2020-07-20 17:38:59

    3. 我们目前正在研究一些layer2解决方案,并在Bancor V2上线并运行后重新关注这一领域,所以请继续关注这方面的更多动态。

    AMA官方翻译小助手 船员 回复Nate Hindman 发表于2020-07-20 17:37:57

    2. 是的,在Bancor V2启动后,我们正致力于发布BancorDAO,它将对BNT staking奖励(流动性提供者奖励)进行投票。

    我们已经有了一个初步的模式,并将提出一个完整的提案,供公众投票:https://blog.bancor.network/bancor-staking-rewards-ad432e5d590d

    这个系统的运作示例如下:

    • Bancor流动性提供者(作为BancorDAO的成员)的奖励基于:

    • 他们向资金池提供流动性

    • 他们在池中的持有的stake

    例如,在某一个月:

    • 产生了10万美元的质押奖励

    • 奖励是基于某些特征(如流动性深度)分配给“合格”池的。

    • MKR/BNT池可获得5%(5000美元)的奖励

    • 提供MKR/BNT池10%流动性的用户,将在其交易费用份额的基础上获得10%的staking奖励(500美元)。

    通过这种方式,Bancor的流动性提供者不仅能从资金池的交易费用中获利,还能从其质押回报中获利。来自费用和奖励的APR(年利率)可能会吸引寻求收益的密码用户向Bancor注入新的资金。

    Bancor的独特之处在于,BNT存在于协议中几乎所有的AMM中。因此,随着BNT价格的上涨,每个池的流动性增加,从而产生更多的交易量和费用。这些网络效应复合时,BNT staking奖励生效,所以它的推出应该是令人兴奋的!


    AMA官方翻译小助手 船员 回复Asaf Shachaf 发表于2020-07-20 17:30:16

    1. 简而言之,Bancor减少了套利者重新平衡储备和从池中提取价值的机会,同时允许“健康”套利发生,不会从池中移除任何价值。对于每个储备,已质押余额代表流动性提供者所押代币的总数,当前余额表示储备中持有代币的数量。储备池更新储备权重,以激励市场参与者将当前的储备与已押的储备平衡起来。喂价用于计算权重,这样在套利结束后,池价就等于市场价格。

    关于如何降低无常损失的最好说明在这里:https://docs.bancor.network/v2-liquidity-pools/balancing-mechanics

    还有这里:

    https://blog.bancor.network/breaking-down-bancor-v2-dynamic-automated-market-makers-4e90c0f9a04https://blog.bancor.network/beginners-guide-to-getting-rekt-by-impermanent-loss-7c9510cb2f22

    这个系统可以被插入其他预言机方案,但我们认为现阶段最佳且最有弹性的是Chainlink。


    Nate Hindman 水手 回复洒脱喜 发表于2020-07-20 17:04:34 嘉宾
    3. We are investigating some Layer 2 solutions at the moment and re-focusing efforts in this area once Bancor V2 is up and running, so stay tuned for more updates on this soon.
    Nate Hindman 水手 回复洒脱喜 发表于2020-07-20 17:03:20 嘉宾
    2. Yes, after Bancor V2 is launched we are working on releasing the BancorDAO, which will vote on BNT Saking Rewards (liquidity provider incentives).
    We already have an initial model and will introduce a full proposal for the community to vote on: https://blog.bancor.network/bancor-staking-rewards-ad432e5d590d(中文翻译,https://www.jinse.com/blockchain/632618.html)
    Here is an example of how the system would work:
    Bancor liquidity providers (as members of the BancorDAO) receive rewards based on:
    the pool(s) they’re providing liquidity to
    their ownership stake in the pool(s)
    For example, in a given month:
    $100K in staking rewards is generated
    Rewards are distributed to “qualified” pools based on some characteristic (e.g., liquidity depth)
    The MKR/BNT pool qualifies for 5% ($5K) in rewards
    A user supplying 10% of the MKR/BNT pool’s liquidity receives 10% of the staking rewards ($500) on top of their share of trading fees.
    In this way, liquidity providers on Bancor stand to earn not only from a pool’s trading fees, but also from its staking rewards. The APR from fees and rewards could attract new capital to Bancor from crypto users seeking yield.

    Bancor is unique in the sense that BNT exists within almost every AMM on the protocol. So as the price of BNT rises, each pool becomes more liquidity, and in turn, generates more volume and fees. These network effects get compounded when BNT staking rewards go live, so it should be exciting to launch!
    Asaf Shachaf 水手 回复洒脱喜 发表于2020-07-20 16:53:18 嘉宾
    1.In short, Bancor reduces the opportunity for arbitrageurs to rebalance reserves and extract value from the pool, while allowing for “healthy” arbitrage to occur which does not remove any value from the pool. For each reserve, staked balance indicates the total amount of tokens staked by liquidity providers, and current balance indicates the amount of tokens held in the reserve. The pool updates reserve weights to incentivize market participants to equalize the current balance with the staked balance. Price feeds are used for calculating the weights such that after arbitrage closure, the pool price becomes equal to the market price.

    The best explanations as to how impermanent loss mitigation works can be found here:
    https://docs.bancor.network/v2-liquidity-pools/balancing-mechanics

    And here: https://blog.bancor.network/breaking-down-bancor-v2-dynamic-automated-market-makers-4e90c0f9a04

    The system can be plugged into other oracle solutions, but we believe the best and most resilient solution at this stage is definitely Chainlink.
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嘉宾介绍
Nate Hindman

Bancor业务增长负责人

Bancor业务增长负责人
Asaf Shachaf

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Bancor 产品负责人
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