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【AMA】Cosmos: 跨链时代最终来临?深度畅聊区块链无限扩容的投资价值!

嘉宾 Sunny_Aggarwal,Chjango

跨链新风口跨链(cross-chain),顾名思义,就是通过连接相对独立的区块链系统,实现资产、数据等的跨链互操作。区块链最出名的就是它去中心化的分布式账本技术,每个单独的链都是一个独立的账本,例如 BTC, Ethereum, EOS, Cardano就是四条不同的链,也就意味着是4个不同的独立的账本,他们4个账本之间并没有关联。对于企业或用户而言,…

已结束参与人数:208
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  • 清影觅 船员 发表于2019-06-05 17:38:22

    使用Tendermint算法,验证人之间的通行成本很高,也就意味着验证人数量达到一定级别之后,速度会慢很多,这个问题后续有解决方法吗?

    Cosmos翻译小助手-Shirley 水手 回复清影觅 发表于2019-06-05 19:03:33
    If the validators get more and more in the future, the network will get slower. Do you have any solutions for that?
    Sunny_Aggarwal 水手 回复清影觅 发表于2019-06-06 10:10:40 嘉宾
    Yes, couple of ideas:
    1. BLS Signature Aggregation (can combine signatures as gossip layer so less network load)
    2. Pipelined Tendermint (multiple tendermint rounds at once)
    3. QUIC (Currently we use TCP for a lot of things we should use UDP/QUIC for)
    一只胡萝北 管理员 回复清影觅 发表于2019-06-10 20:23:17
    Sunny:是的,有几点想法:
    1. BLS签名聚合(可以将签名组合为八卦层,从而减少网络负载)
    2. Pipelined Tendermint(一次进行许多Tendermint)
    3. QUIC(目前我们使用TCP来做很多应该使用UDP / QUIC的东西)
  • sudo666 船员 发表于2019-06-05 17:38:48

    能不能简单介绍一下Tendermint的特性以及其工作原理?为什么说它是唯一符合ABCIspec规范的算法?

    Cosmos翻译小助手-Shirley 水手 回复sudo666 发表于2019-06-05 19:03:44
    What are the principle and technical characteristics of Tendermint?Why it is the only one that follow the standards of ABCIspec?

    Sunny_Aggarwal 水手 回复sudo666 发表于2019-06-06 10:12:29 嘉宾
    The guiding principle of Tendermint Consensus is practical, fast finality BFT. It's not the most complex BFT protocol in the world, but it is very practical. Part of the reason it's the only consensus engine that follows the ABCI spec is that it's probably currently the only production-grade BFT consensus engine. As more get built we'd like to have them comply to the ABCI spec as well. For example HoneyBadger.
    一只胡萝北 管理员 回复sudo666 发表于2019-06-10 20:23:52
    Sunny:Tendermint 共识算法的基本工作原理是切实的,快速的完结BFT。 它不是最复杂的BFT协议,但它非常实用。 说它是唯一符合ABCI规范的共识算法,部分归因于它可能是目前唯一的生产级BFT共识引擎。 随着越来越多的共识算法被建立,我们希望它们也能符合ABCI规范, 例如HoneyBadger。
  • zhoujie 船员 发表于2019-06-05 17:39:38

    目前Cosmos项目进展的怎么样?开发过程中有没有遇到什么困难?

    Cosmos翻译小助手-Shirley 水手 回复zhoujie 发表于2019-06-05 19:03:54
    What's the update of Cosmos these days? Are there any difficulties in developing?
    Chjango 水手 回复zhoujie 发表于2019-06-06 10:49:07 嘉宾
    Currently, core developers on the Tendermint team is soliciting input from projects that are going to be using IBC as their cross-chain solution. The repository for tracking IBC development can be found on github.com/cosmos/ics.

    We recently successfully separated the Gaia (Cosmos Hub) logic from the Cosmos SDK framework, making a clean separation between the Cosmos SDK and the Cosmos Hub. You can see the new Cosmos Hub repository live here: github.com/cosmos/gaia.

    On the business development end, the Tendermint team has worked with key projects (cosmos.network/ecosystem) to get complementary solutions out the door. The Interledger protocol, for instance, is a useful cross-chain payments solution that we think would benefit users of Cosmos SDK.

    The Interchain Foundation has started ramping up its grants program, of which the first batch of grants closed recently after receiving high demand. (It will open up for grant applications again later in the year after it processes the first batch.) Learn more about which projects are funded by ICF on interchain.io.

    ICF is funding many complementary projects like Thorchain which can help build out Interchain ecosystem initiatives such as the Cosmos <> Ethereum two-way peg.
    一只胡萝北 管理员 回复zhoujie 发表于2019-06-10 20:24:29
    Chjango: 目前,Tendermint团队的核心开发人员正在征求将使用IBC作为跨链解决方案项目的意见。大家可以在github.com/cosmos/ics追踪IBC开发存储库。

    我们最近成功地将Gaia(Cosmos Hub)逻辑与Cosmos SDK框架分离,实现了Cosmos SDK与Cosmos Hub之间完全分离。您可以在此处查看新的Cosmos Hub存储库:github.com/cosmos/gaia。

    在业务开发方面,Tendermint团队与重点项目(cosmos.network/ecosystem)合作,以获得补充解决方案。例如,Interledger协议就是一个有用的跨链支付解决方案,我们认为这将使Cosmos SDK的用户受益。

    Interchain基金会已经开始加大其拨款计划,其中第一批拨款在收到大量需求后于最近结束。 (它将在处理第一批项目拨款申请后,在今年晚些时候再次开放授权申请。)大家可以在interchain.io上了解到更多关于ICF资助了哪些项目的信息。

    ICF正在资助许多像Thorchain这样的补充项目,这些项目可以帮助建立Interchain生态系统,例如使Cosmos <> Ethereum双向挂钩。
  • jieke 副船长 发表于2019-06-05 17:40:05

    Cosmos借助inter-blockchain communication protocol (IBC)可以实现两个同样基于Tendermint共识的网络之间实现价值转移。但是,在Casper the Friendly Finality Gadget(CFFG)实现之前,比特币和以太坊目前都不具有最终性保证,能不能介绍一下Cosmos如何通过Peg Zone 与这类不具有最终性的区块链进行交互的?比如说,如何把Cosmos中的token转到以太坊中?

    Cosmos翻译小助手-Shirley 水手 回复jieke 发表于2019-06-06 10:16:32
    How does Cosmos interact with the blockchains that without finality via PegZone? For example, how do you transfer tokens from Cosmos to Ethereum?
    一只胡萝北 管理员 回复jieke 发表于2019-06-06 10:19:16
    Q: We Know that Cosmos enables the value transaction between networks based on Tendermint consensus through inter-blockchain communication protocol. However, until the Casper the Friendly Finality Gadget (CFFG) has been accomplished, both Bitcoin and Ethereum can not do the cross-chain transaction. Could you please demonstrate how dose Cosmos solve this problem through Peg Zone? E.g. How to transform token from Cosmos to Ethereum blockchain?
    Chjango 水手 回复一只胡萝北 发表于2019-06-06 10:28:16 嘉宾
    I wrote an in-depth overview of how this can be conceptually done last year: https://blog.cosmos.network/the-internet-of-blockchains-how-cosmos-does-interoperability-starting-with-the-ethereum-peg-zone-8744d4d2bc3f. This is a bit outdated now and we are currently undergoing developing a unidirectional peg zone (stage 1) to Ethereum with Thorchain's engineering shop: https://github.com/cosmos/peggy/pull/51.

    But very briefly, the way you "tranfer" tokens across chains is to lock up tokens in a contract on one chain, only to "mint" a synthetic version of that token on the other chain. And the function of the peg zone is to act as an "adaptor" chain whose sole responsibility is to act as a "finality gadget" for chains that have probabilistic finality, e.g. Bitcoin, Ethereum.
    Chjango 水手 回复Cosmos翻译小助手-Shirley 发表于2019-06-06 10:28:36 嘉宾
    See answer above.
    一只胡萝北 管理员 回复jieke 发表于2019-06-10 20:25:26
    Chjango: 我在去年从概念角度出发写了一篇关于如何解决此类问题的深入概述:https://blog.cosmos.network/the-internet-of-blockchains-how-cosmos-does-interoperability-starting-with-the-ethereum-peg-zone-8744d4d2bc3f.
    现在可能已经有些过时了。我们正在与Thorchain合作开发一个单向Peg Zone(第1阶段)链接到以太坊:https://github.com/cosmos/peggy/pull/51。

    但简单来说,你是通过一个合约将token锁在一条链上来实现跨链token“转移”的,只是在另一条链上“铸造”了该token的合成版本。 Peg zone的功能是充当“适配器”链,其唯一的责任是为具有概率最终性链(例如, 比特币,以太坊)充当“终极小工具”。
  • 艾浩琪 船员 发表于2019-06-05 17:40:18

    能不能介绍一下ATOM的分配以及在Cosmos生态中的用例?

    Cosmos翻译小助手-Shirley 水手 回复艾浩琪 发表于2019-06-05 19:04:08
    What's the distribution of ATOM? And what's the function of it in Cosmos ecosystem?
    Sunny_Aggarwal 水手 回复艾浩琪 发表于2019-06-06 10:30:56 嘉宾
    You can see some details about Atom distribution at fundraiser and currently at these two links respectively:
    https://messari.io/asset/cosmos
    https://bharvest.io/wallet_en

    From @chjango:

    "ATOMs are a staking token, which means it's utilized as a digitized version of specialized hardware that simulates how GPUs, FPGAs, and ASICs are used for mining Proof-of-Work chains. Since the Cosmos Hub is secured entirely through Proof-of-Stake, there needs to be a token—in this case, the ATOM—that acts as a unit of voting power to act as the analogue to what would otherwise be hash power.

    Going back to the basics of PoS, an ATOM denominates the "weight" that any staker has. Thus, we are not so much interested in ? or ? of the number of validators, but in the proportion of the total voting power, which may not be uniformly distributed across individual validators. So when you hear “? or more” validators, what it really means is “? or more” of the stake-weighted percentage of the total bonded ATOMs of all validators in the 100 validator set."
    一只胡萝北 管理员 回复艾浩琪 发表于2019-06-10 20:26:04
    Sunny:以下2个链接展示了Atom在资金筹集人之间的分配:
    https://messari.io/asset/cosmos
    https://bharvest.io/wallet_en

    引用之前Chjango的回答:ATOM是一种staking代币,这意味着它作为特殊硬件的数字化版本被使用,类似GPU,FPGA和ASIC在PoW链上挖矿一样。 由于Cosmos Hub完全通过Proof-of-Stake来保护,因此需要一种代币 - ATOM - 作为投票权的一个单位,起到类似算例的作用。
    回到PoS的本质,ATOM代表了任何一个staker所具有的“权重”。 因此我们对验证器的数量多少并不在意,而应该看重所占总投票权的比例,投票权并不会平均分配到各个验证器上。 所以,当你听到XX个验证器时,你真正应该关心的是这XX个验证器在所有 100个验证器中所绑定的ATOM的百分比。
  • 大力 船员 发表于2019-06-05 17:40:32

    请科普一下Tendermint共识协议具体在PoS拜占庭容错算法(BFT)上做了哪些优化?

    Cosmos翻译小助手-Shirley 水手 回复大力 发表于2019-06-05 19:04:20
    What are the advantages of Tendermint BFT?
    Sunny_Aggarwal 水手 回复大力 发表于2019-06-06 10:14:50 嘉宾
    The guiding principle of Tendermint Consensus is practical, fast finality BFT. Blocks are finalized after 1 block and byzantine faults are cryptographically attributable, allowing the malicious node to be slashed. Tendermint also allows a rotating block proposer every block and is optimized for operation over public p2p gossip networks, both of which are important for public blockchains.

    It's not the most complex BFT protocol in the world, but it is very practical and simple. Tendermint Core is probably currently the only production-grade BFT consensus engine.
    一只胡萝北 管理员 回复大力 发表于2019-06-10 20:26:37
    Sunny:Tendermint 共识算法的基本工作原理是切实的,快速的完结BFT。 拜占庭容错从密码学的角度,使恶意节点被削减。 Tendermint让每个区块的有轮流验证人,并针对公共p2p gossip网络的操作进行了优化,两者都对公链都很重要。

    Tendermint不是世界上最复杂的BFT协议,但它非常实用和简单。Tendermint Core可能是目前唯一的生产级BFT共识引擎。
  • 西门吹币 副船长 发表于2019-06-05 17:40:47

    Casper也是一个PoS共识机制,Tendermint与Casper相比各有什么特点?

    Cosmos翻译小助手-Shirley 水手 回复西门吹币 发表于2019-06-05 19:04:34
    What are the differences between Tendermint & Casper?
    Sunny_Aggarwal 水手 回复西门吹币 发表于2019-06-06 10:29:22 嘉宾
    Check out this article here: https://blog.cosmos.network/consensus-compare-casper-vs-tendermint-6df154ad56ae
    一只胡萝北 管理员 回复西门吹币 发表于2019-06-10 20:26:55
    Sunny:这篇文章详细解释了Tendermint和Casper的对比:https://blog.cosmos.network/consensus-compare-casper-vs-tendermint-6df154ad56ae
  • 无酒亦无眠 船员 发表于2019-06-05 17:41:10

    关于卡特尔形式Cartel Formation (任意经济框架下的寡头垄断问题),在Casper的体系里面,CTFG协议明确使用了内审激励机制来防御卡特尔形式,Tendermint在这方面是如何避免形成卡特尔的?

    Cosmos翻译小助手-Shirley 水手 回复无酒亦无眠 发表于2019-06-05 19:04:46
    Are there any solutions for Tendermint to avoid CartelFormation compared with Casper?
    Sunny_Aggarwal 水手 回复无酒亦无眠 发表于2019-06-06 10:05:24 嘉宾
    One of the nice things about a Cartel in Tendermint is that any cartel of less than 33% is pretty powerless, they cannot to anything malicious. We are working on incentives to make griefing your cartel easy and beneficial (the best way to stop cartels is to sow distrust). For example, we can make it that if you expose your cartel, you can benefit from it. Also, governance is a good anti-cartel mechanism and governance can also punish found cartel members.
    Chjango 水手 回复Cosmos翻译小助手-Shirley 发表于2019-06-06 10:32:35 嘉宾
    To add to Sunny's point about leveraging on-chain governance as an anti-cartel mechanism, Casper FFG faces the same risks as Tendermint in the face of collusion. Casper CBC, on the other hand, theoretically bakes in an anti-cartel mechanism via cryptoeconomic disincentives, but again, the benefit for CBC is that its algorithms are largely theoretical.
    一只胡萝北 管理员 回复无酒亦无眠 发表于2019-06-10 20:27:38
    Sunny:Tendermint中卡特尔的一个值得庆幸的点是任何低于33%的卡特尔都是无效的,他们不能做任何恶意的事情。 我们正在制定激励措施,使打击卡特尔变得轻松并且有利可图(阻止卡特尔形成的最佳方式是散布不信任)。 例如,我们可以使你在主动曝光你的卡特尔时获利。 链上治理也可以是一种良好的反卡特尔机制,治理也可以惩罚被发现卡特尔的社区成员。

    Chjango: 对于Sunny把链上治理来作为一种反卡特尔机制进行补充,在面临节点勾结问题时Casper FFG与Tendermint有着相同的风险。 另一方面,Casper CBC理论上通过加密经济学抑制手段来加入反卡特尔机制,但同样,CBC算法的作用在很大程度上只是是理论上的。
  • 快跑 船长 发表于2019-06-05 17:41:22

    能不能介绍一下Cosmos的ROADMAP和社区的下一步战略?

    Cosmos翻译小助手-Shirley 水手 回复快跑 发表于2019-06-05 19:04:57
    What's your roadmap? And what will you do for the community next step?
    Chjango 水手 回复快跑 发表于2019-06-06 10:38:04 嘉宾
    There's currently a very high-level roadmap at cosmos.network/roadmap. The biggest milestone we're aiming to cross is deploying Interblockchain Communication. Since IBC is the dependency that all of our other projects need in order to work, it needs to be completed first. After IBC, we can build a working Peg Zone, we can have Ethermint, and most importantly, we can have cross-collateralized chains with the Cosmos Hub.

    The last one is the most interesting milestone to me: cross-collateralized chains. This is distinct from shared security in that you're not using the same validators to validate your chain, as in Polkadot or ETH 2.0, under the same virtual machine, but your chain could essentially be collateralized in ATOMs so that if any malicious activity happens on your chain, those malicious actors will get slashed in ATOMs.
    一只胡萝北 管理员 回复快跑 发表于2019-06-10 20:28:38
    Chjango: 目前cosmos.network/roadmap上有一个高层级路线图。 目前部署链内通信是我们计划达成的下一个重要里程碑。由于IBC是保证其他项目正常工作的基础,因此需要首先完成。 在IBC之后,我们可以建立一个可行的Peg Zone,我们可以拥有Ethermint,最重要的是,我们可以与Cosmos Hub建立跨链互联。

    最后一个对我来说是最有趣的里程碑:跨链互联区块链。 这与共享安全性不同,因为你无法像在Polkadot或ETH2.0中,在同一个虚拟机下使用相同的验证器来验证一条链,但您的链基本上可以与ATOM进行互联,这样一来,一旦你的链上有恶意行为,这些作恶者将在ATOM中被惩罚。
  • 47c2dba3ad 水手 发表于2019-06-05 18:09:18

    明人不说暗话,我是冲妹子来的!哈哈!

  • 361b3f9ccf 水手 发表于2019-06-05 22:43:38

    blacknet基层账户可无限扩展跨链,使用kotlin开发,创新stake不发币不锁定。

  • 99ec07009894 水手 发表于2019-06-06 09:51:43

    ATOM在整个生态中的位置重要吗?

  • 99ec07009894 水手 发表于2019-06-06 09:55:07

    在哪里看直播啊

    一只胡萝北 管理员 回复99ec07009894 发表于2019-06-06 10:31:26
    文字问答形式AMA,嘉宾回帖回答
  • 呦呦鹿鸣er 水手 发表于2019-06-06 10:01:22

    在哪里看直播啊

    一只胡萝北 管理员 回复呦呦鹿鸣er 发表于2019-06-06 10:32:22
    在这个帖子内提问,嘉宾线上作答
  • 99ec07009894 水手 发表于2019-06-06 10:04:21

    还没开始吗

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